Talk:Valladolid

Why "Pucela"?

Why do the Valladolianos call their town so differently ("Pucela")? --Menchi 12:32, 13 July 2003 (UTC)

No sé. - Montréalais — Preceding undated comment added 05:34, 5 August 2003 (UTC)

Apparently, there's no written document that solves that question; it is only an oral tradition. There are several theories about this fact; the most "historical" one says that in the 15th century people from Valladolid (called Vallisoletanos), were convinced partisans of Joan of Arc, from Orleans, France, who was known as pucelle in french, pucela in old spanish (both from latin pullicella; therefore, the name Pucelanos given to the soldiers from this town that went to the war, and Pucela to the town. Other theories consider this name as coming from a particular element of the town, such as a small well (pozuela), or a ceramic industry called pozuelana. As said, none of these theories has been proved by means of written historical documents. See: Almuiña, Celso. "El nombre de Valladolid". "Historia de Valladolid a través de sus personajes". edu18875, 9 Jan 2005 — Preceding undated comment added 10:43, 9 January 2005 (UTC)

"Vallisoletanos (or pucelanos) are reputed to speak the purest Castilian of all of Spain, a reputation similar to that of Tours or Aberdeen, Scotland." The relation to Tours and Aberdeen should be clarified, I think. It just seems to be hanging there as it is. --User:Jenmoa 01:56, 20 February 2005 (UTC)

Dialect

The perfect Castilian is spoken in the nearby cities of Palencia and Burgos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.58.49.235 (talk) 18:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The perfect Castillian is considered to be spoken in Castillia, that is: Burgos, Segovia, Soria and Avila. To this region you may add Valladolid and Palencia(sometimes are in Leon and sometimes in Castilla:-)). Anyway the difference between Palencia and Valladolid way of speaking is really small(I live next to both cities). Pter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.155.194.216 (talk) 14:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the discussion on the "purity of the language" should be justified. It is a strong assertion to say that the way a language is spoken or written by some group is "purer" than another.

Any good references for that? --Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.78.104.85 (talk) 19:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I think there is a mistake here. The inhabitants of Castile do not speak the best Spanish in gramatical terms, they speak the best Spanish in pronounciation terms. As an example they have the leismo problem (considered gratamical) but in the other hand they pronounce correctly the last d in Valladolid, instead Valladoliz as it is done in the rest of Spain. An exception is the mentioned yeismo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.40.214.200 (talk) 20:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the name of Valladolid

It is unclear wether the name Valladolid has the arabic origin claimed here. I think there is a better explanation in the Spanish version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.88.39.34 (talk) 09:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

There are several theories about the name of Valladolid, I don't speak english very well, but next links explains the origin of the name of Valladolid, anybody who write english better than me should write a short description of the origin of the name of Valladolid into this article:

• Nombre de Pucela
• Origen del nombre de Valladolid (toónimo)

--Rapomon 11:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Note: The article is historically poor and neglects Arab historical sources, which are essential for any researcher of the history of Andalusia, as the city was mentioned many times in ancient Arabic books. For example, the famous book (Geography) by Ibn Saeed Al-Maghribi (d. 685 AH) mentions it as (Madinat Walid) = the city of Walid, page 56, and describes it as one of the best cities, with many orchards. Al-Qalqashandi (d. 821 AH) followed him in his book Subh Al-A'sha, vol. 5, p. 230. The historian Ibn Al-Athir (d. 630 AH) mentions it in his book Al-Kamil fi Al-Tarikh, vol. 6, p. 317, under the name: (Hisn Walid) = Walid fortress.

These descriptions: country, fortress, and city, all have synonyms in meaning and indicate that the origin of the name Walid is ancient, and it is an Arabic name known to the Umayyads who ruled Andalusia for three centuries.

The city remained under Muslim rule for more than 300 years, until after the fall of the Marwanid (Umayyad) state and before the fall of Toledo and its surroundings at the hands of Alfonso VI (between 422 and 479 AH). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:B10B:CA01:18E4:D8CF:53F3:41A3 (talk) 15:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Cervantes House

he only surviving house of Miguel de Cervantes is also located in Valladolid.

There is a house of Miguel de Cervantes in Alcalá de Henares, now operating as a museum with reconstructions of period life and sundry editions of Don Quixote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.250.143.131 (talk) 08:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus House

In this year, 2006, the Christopher Columbus' House has been redesign. A new building ship-shaped has been added and wheelchair users will find it very easy the access to the house. It is 500 years since he died in this house of Valladolid, so the entrance will be free untill October. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temporal (talk • contribs) 17:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please note the artical states "Christopher Columbus died in Valladolid in 1506 in a house which is now a Museum dedicated to him." However the Museum link states it was contructed in 1968. Can someone clarify the discrepency? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.96.14 (talk) 14:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

References about the speech of Valladolid

I provide here two highly reputable references about the speech of Valladolid, to prevent further deletion of this information from the article on the untrue claim made by User:Temporal that they are "false" and "inaccurate". First, a reference to Valladolid leísmo: (emphasis mine) "Ocurre, sin embargo, que, desde antiguo, y con mucha fuerza ya en el siglo XVI, el pronombre le está invadiendo el empleo de lo en los territorios centrales de la Península (“Al presidente le pone nervioso...”); es el fenómeno llamado leísmo, de tanta pujanza, que al señor Romagosa le parece el evangelio gramatical. Y no, no lo es. Simplemente ocurre que lo oye más porque vive en Madrid; y le atronaría en los oídos si, cosa siempre recomendable, se diera un paseo por Valladolid". (Fernando Lázaro Carreter, late RAE member: El dardo en la palabra. Barcelona, Galaxia Gutenberg, 2001, page 362; quoted here). And now a reference to their use of intransitive verbs with transitive meaning: (again, emphasis mine) "El uso transitivo de caer y quedar es un fenómeno característico del área occidental del dominio castellano, es decir, un fenómeno propio del antiguo leonés, que hoy tiene gran vitalidad, todavía, en todas o casi todas las comarcas occidentales, principalmente en Zamora, Salamanca y Cáceres, y también, aunque con menos fuerza, en León, Palencia, Valladolid y Ávila. Como en el caso de entrar, también en los de caer y quedar el uso transitivo implica automáticamente un cambio de significado (caer 'caer' > caer 'derribar'; quedar 'quedar' > quedar 'dejar, olvidar'): caer el vaso, caer una silla [...]; quedar la cartera en casa [...], quedar admirado a alguien. No es necesario insistir en el carácter vulgar y regional de estas construcciones, y en su ilicitud, aunque en el dominio leonés sean el pan nuestro de cada día, y nadie que se haya criado en él –yo tampoco- pueda erradicarlas de su habla espontánea." (Antonio Llorente Maldonado de Guevara, renowned philologist from the University of Salamanca: "Consideraciones sobre el español actual". Anuario de Letras XVIII, 1980, page 32; quoted here). Uaxuctum 05:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Reconozco que algunos (no todos) de los errores gramaticales a los que haces referencia aquí son ciertos hoy en día, mas no lo son aquellos que utilizas como ejemplo en el artículo principal. Por lo cual me reafirmo en considerar que la información que das es imprecisa y/o falsa. Tampoco creo que hoy por hoy sea Valladolid la zona donde mejor se hable español, pero definitivamente no se comenten tantos errores al hablar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temporal (talk • contribs) 10:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Los "errores" gramaticales a los que acabo de hacer referencia aquí, citando para ello las palabras de dos muy reconocidos lingüistas, son el leísmo y el uso de verbos intransitivos con significado transitivo, y esos (junto al laísmo y el yeísmo, de los que si quieres también te doy referencias) son los "errores" gramaticales que se mencionan en el artículo. Así que ya me explicarás con más detalle a qué te refieres con que no son "los que utilizo como ejemplo en el artículo", cuando de hecho uno de los ejemplos del artículo emplea el mismo verbo "quedar" que menciona explícitamente Antonio Llorente Maldonado. Aunque, si así te convence mejor, pues reemplaza los ejemplos de leísmo y uso transitivo de verbos intransitivos en el artículo por los que ejemplos de esos mismos fenómenos que dan Alarcos y Llorente. Pero no vuelvas a borrar la información, porque ya he dado referencias muy reputables para respaldarla, aparte de ser fenómenos que conozco personalmente de primera mano (creo que en 6 años no escuché a un solo vallisoletano que no fuera leísta, e incluso gente que no era de allí acababa "contagiada" de leísmo de tanto oírlo al llevar allí un cierto tiempo). Uaxuctum 19:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Sinceramente, no creo que esto sea una cuestión del número de referencias que seas capaz de encontrar o de los pequeños círculos en los cuales te hayas movido durante esos seis años. No obstante, entiendo que te gustan las referencias a las eminencias del campo. Seguro que en la versión en español de esta página habrá quien pueda combatir tus argumentos con citas de "reconocidos lingüistas". Como no soy un experto wikipedista, no sé cual es el modo habitual de llamar su atención al respecto. Sugiero que escribas la correspondiente traducción en el artículo principal (de la versión en español) y esperes su reacción. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temporal (talk • contribs) 14:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Esto es una enciclopedia y en una enciclopedia las referencias es lo fundamental (léete Wikipedia:Verifiability). Aquí se da cuenta de lo que especialistas en la materia (como quien fue presidente de la RAE durante siete años) han dicho y reportado sobre el tema en publicaciones, y no lo que tú o yo podamos opinar personalmente sobre ello, que es meramente anecdótico. Si tienes alguna referencia de algún reputado lingüista en la que afirme que en Valladolid no se da el leísmo, ni el laísmo, ni el yeísmo, ni la transitivización de los verbos intransitivos quedar y caer, pues proporciónala y entonces en el artículo aparecerán ambas visiones del asunto (la de lingüistas de reconocido prestigio como Lázaro Carreter y Llorente Maldonado, y la de las referencias que acaso proporciones). Por otro lado, te pediría que los próximos comentarios que hagas aquí sean en lengua inglesa, ya que esta es la Wikipedia en inglés y si seguimos conversando en castellano estamos excluyendo de la discusión a los demás wikipedistas que no hablan esta lengua. Uaxuctum 00:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Por favor, translademos la discusión a la versión en español. Inserta en el artículo principal de la versión en español la correspondiente traducción. Entiendo que la vesión en español ha de ser el referente, al menos en lo que respecta a este asunto. Aceptaré la apropiada traducción de lo que allí se considere aceptado. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temporal (talk • contribs) 11:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

En una enciclopedia la verdad debería ser lo fundamental. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Temporal (talk • contribs) 11:54, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Other information

This article needs to be expanded to include other information about the city, such as the economy, culture, transportation, education, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.154.176 (talk) 16:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

English College Valladolid

There is an English Seminary in Valladolid called "Real y Pontifico Colegio de los Nobles Ingleses y de San Albano" which houses the famous status "Our Lady Vulnerata" (La Virgen/Nuestra Senora Vulnerata). I think this should be included but I am biased because English College Valladolid is my alma mater. The College was founded in 1589 and has 16 students who have been beatified or canonised, and one venerable. Former students include numerous senior clergy and bishops. The College website is www.valladolid.org, I hope someone feels that they can write a NPOV entry? 80.44.115.66 14:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I should add that the above entry was made by me, so please direct any comments to my talk page. Apologies for the oversight on my part. Oliver Keenan 15:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate tone tag

This article reads like a travel guide, but wikipedia is not a travel guide. Please clean up. :) Calliopejen1 18:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I find this article good writen.--Newuser0077 (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Burial place of Aodh Rua Ó Dónaill

I never heard of Valladolid until the past year when The Irish Times ran a story about a Franciscan monastery there being the burial place of no less than Aodh Rua Ó Dónaill, the joint leader of the native Irish during the Nine Years War. 400 years later, given the man's incredible stature in the Irish fight against the British conquest of Ireland and the centuries of persecution which followed, his burial in this city should be recorded here. 109.77.125.55 (talk) 15:29, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Fish

"Fish like red bream and hake are a major part of Valladolid's cuisine."

Do, they indeed? Well, I have restructured this part to remove the reference to the Cantabrian sea, as it would seem that red bream is found anywhere but there. Common bream, if that was meant, is a freshwater fish. Kelisi (talk) 01:36, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Valladolid is not the capital of Castilla y León Region

Valladolid is not the capital of the autonomous region of Castile and León — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.220.217.78 (talk) 12:26, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

• While it is true that the statute of the autonomous region of Castilla y León intentionally omits mentioning the fact, Valladolid is the de facto capital and the seat of the regional parliament (�Ley 13/1987, de 29 de diciembre,... "Artículo único: Las Instituciones básicas de la Comunidad Autónoma de Castilla y León, Cortes de Castilla y León, Presidente de la Junta de Castilla y León y Junta de Castilla y León, en que se expresa su autogobierno, tendrán su sede en la ciudad de Valladolid.") Perhaps you could add something to the article explaining this specific situation for readers who do not "understand" the inherent historical/political complexities of Spain's autonomous regions. I don't have time right now, but I will try to get back to this later. --Technopat (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Etymology of Valladolid

Valladolid is from Arabic بلد الوليد (Balad al-Walid) 'City of Al-Walid' and from Latin Valdoletum and from Latin Vallisoletum. Derwydd74 (talk) 05:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Etymology of Valladolid

Valladolid is from Arabic بلد الوليد (Balad al-Walīd) 'City of Al-Walīd' and from Latin Valdoletum which is an alteration of Vallisoletum. Cappuccini Fiorentini (talk) 10:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)